Kip Leming - From Riot's Classic Lineup

Rockstar MBA: Unpacking the Business of Bass with Kip Leming, from Riot's Classic Lineup by Dr. Martin J. McDermott, DBA

I'm thrilled to share insights from a truly special interview for the inaugural Rockstar MBA podcast, where we explore the powerful intersection of music and business. My guest for this landmark episode was none other than Kip Leming, the legendary bassist from the classic lineup of the iconic band Riot, known for his incredible work on albums like Fire Down Under, Restless Breed, and Born in America.

At Rockstar MBA, invaluable lessons on life, business, marketing, entrepreneurship, and leadership aren't exclusively found in boardrooms or textbooks. They're often hidden in plain sight, embedded in the experiences of rock stars and artists who navigate complex creative and commercial landscapes. My upcoming book, Rockstar MBA: 77 Untapped Lessons, delves deep into this theme, challenging us to view art and business not as opposites but as complementary forces that drive creativity, value, and human connection.

My personal journey with Riot began at 16 when I received Born in America as a Christmas gift. From the moment I heard the title track, I was hooked. I soon devoured their discography, working backward through Restless Breed, Fire Down Under, Narita, and Rock City. This band's music resonates deeply with me today and has significantly influenced me.

Reaching out to Kip for this interview was a full-circle moment. As he wisely noted, "the bigger the rockstar, the nicer the person," a sentiment that truly encapsulates Kip's graciousness. Having conducted countless interviews with CEOs, entrepreneurs, and athletes over my nearly two decades in podcasting, this conversation with Kip was a career highlight.

Let's dive into some of the powerful business and life lessons from our discussion:

The Entrepreneurial Spirit of a Bassist: Finding Your Niche

Kip's musical journey began in a small New Jersey town with just one traffic light. Despite its size, it harbored a surprising number of musicians. "Being a bass player, I kind of had a gig whenever I wanted it," Kip recalled. This notion highlights a fundamental business principle: identifying and filling a market need. While everyone else wanted to be guitarists or drummers, Kip carved out his niche, ensuring consistent skill demand.

Kip’s story is equally compelling. As a young teen, he bluffed his way into a band by claiming he could play bass despite never having touched one. This act of bold self-belief and calculated risk-taking propelled him forward. With the help of his grandmother, who owned a music store, he quickly acquired a used bass and an improvised amplifier, playing his first gig within two weeks. His advice to aspiring bassists mirrors sound entrepreneurial guidance: "Get a bass, join a band, because you will learn fast, provided you have the inspiration and you're ambitious." This notion emphasizes experiential learning, rapid prototyping, and the power of ambition.

The Bassist as a Strategic Leader: Freedom Within Structure

Kip's response was profound when asked what he loves most about playing bass: "Freedom." He elaborated, "You're really locked in with the drummer, but the bass is the missing link between the drummer and the guitars... I can literally manipulate the song any way I want. I can speed it up, and for some reason, the drummer will follow me."

This notion speaks directly to the role of a strategic leader within an organization. While individual contributors may operate within defined parameters, a truly impactful leader understands how to subtly influence the overall direction, setting the pace and tone for the entire team. Kip's ability to "change the whole rhythm... just by eliminating notes" and create impact through what "isn't there" demonstrates the power of strategic omission and focused execution.

He also highlighted the bassist's unique position to "hold a band together both musically and socially." In a business context, this is the integrator, the individual, who ensures cohesion between different departments or personalities. Kip's humorous revelation that he could "decide who made the mistake" by sticking with either the drummer or guitarist illustrates the power of alignment and the importance of a clear, consistent foundation.

Building an Enduring Product: The Timelessness of Fire Down Under

For many Riot fans, Fire Down Under is a quintessential album, a timeless masterpiece that continues to influence musicians across genres, from Metallica to Iron Maiden. Kip shared insights into its creation, highlighting the collaborative yet individually driven songwriting process. Mark Reale and Ricky Ventura had distinct approaches, but their combined efforts led to something special.

Kip's personal contribution, the title track "Fire Down Under," emerged from a persistent musical idea he'd been developing. His dedication to fleshing out the entire musical piece underscores the importance of creating a core product and bringing it to fruition. The band's initial struggle with the song, followed by the producer's enthusiastic reaction, demonstrates how perseverance and a willingness to iterate can lead to breakthrough innovation.

The recording process itself offers further business parallels. They didn't record songs in a fixed order but based on availability and flow, reflecting agile methodology and resource optimization. The album's final song order was influenced by their "work tape," showing how iterative processes and user experience (even if internal) can shape the final product.

Embracing Evolution: Adapting to Change

When Guy Speranza, Riot's original vocalist, decided to leave after Fire Down Under, the band faced a critical juncture. Instead of seeking a sound-alike, Riot consciously chose to evolve, bringing in Rhett Forrester. Kip explained, "We were looking for the best we could find... I was like, oh great, now we're a cover band of ourselves." This idea exemplifies strategic differentiation and the courage to pivot when necessary. Rhett's audition with "Dream Away" instantly "blew them away," proving that talent and a fresh perspective can revitalize a brand and attract a new audience, even if it initially shocks the existing fanbase.

The Enduring Value of Authenticity: Technology and Tone

Our conversation also touched upon the evolution of music technology. Kip's preference for vinyl and live albums over MP3s speaks to the importance of preserving product quality and a holistic customer experience. While digital formats offer convenience, he notes that they often "take away from the bass" due to compression. His observation that "the bass sounds much better on the live stuff" highlights the authenticity and raw energy a live performance (or a direct, unmediated product experience) can deliver.

Kip's journey with Riot offers a masterclass in business principles: identifying and filling a niche, strategic leadership, product development, embracing change, and valuing authenticity. His story reminds us that the most profound lessons often come from unexpected sources, proving that rock and roll is fertile ground for the Rockstar MBA.

The Unsung Hits: Airplay, Live Performance, and Songwriting Credit

While "Showdown" from Restless Breed may not have been an official single, Kip confirms it garnered significant airplay, particularly on East Coast rock stations like WNEW in New York and WMMR in Philadelphia. This example illustrates the power of organic marketing and audience adoption, even without a formal push. "Riot was so popular in Texas and Seattle and all through the Midwest… but when I would come home, it's like nobody heard of it," Kip recounted. This geographic disparity highlights the importance of market segmentation and targeted outreach.

Kip also reflected on the magic of Riot's live performances. He agreed that songs like "Restless Breed" often sounded even better live than on the album. His commitment to standing in his "sweet spot" during live recordings, ensuring perfect sound and balance, showcases a dedication to operational excellence and quality control, even in the dynamic environment of a live show.

On the songwriting front, Kip had a hand in "Loanshark" from Restless Breed, crediting Mark for the middle section and Rhett for the distinctive lyrics. This collaborative process, where individual strengths are combined, is a hallmark of effective team synergy. His anecdote about "Hard Lovin' Man" and his feeling that a "piece was missing" speaks to the intuitive nature of creative problem-solving and trusting one's instincts, even when others disagree.

Navigating Challenges: The Production and Promotion of Born in America

Born in America holds a special place, and I, too, believe it's an incredible album that, with proper marketing, could have been a top 10 album. Kip's experience with this album provides valuable insights into production challenges and strategic missteps. While praising Ricky's contributions and the unique feel of "Promise Land," Kip noted that "things were not hunky-dory" within the band during this period.

Kip pinpointed issues with the album's production, particularly the buried lyrics, which he felt should have been more prominent. This example emphasizes the critical role of product clarity and messaging in connecting with an audience. Kip also recalled the controversial "Born in America" music video, which had a bizarre concept of kids tying up teachers. This notion is a cautionary tale about brand messaging and aligning with core values. "I just don't see that as no way to promote anything," Kip wisely stated, highlighting the disconnect between the band's artistry and the video's execution.

Despite the hurdles, Kip's personal satisfaction in achieving three studio albums with Riot, matching Guy's record, speaks to the power of personal goals and resilience in the face of external challenges.

The Unplugged Dream and The Hall of Fame Debate

Our conversation ventured into "what-if" scenarios, specifically the idea of an "unplugged" Riot performance. While it never happened, Kip thoughtfully curated a potential setlist, including classics like "Rock City," "Narita," "No Lies," "Don't Hold Back," "Altar of the King," "Restless Breed," "When Soldiers Rule," and "Promise Land." This exercise in imaginative re-envisioning demonstrates the adaptability of a strong product and its potential for diverse market applications.

The discussion then shifted to a more sensitive topic: Riot's induction into the Heavy Metal Hall of Fame. While a moment of pride for the band, Kip's exclusion from the list of honored members sparked a strong reaction from me. He shared his frustration with the perceived rewriting of history and the seemingly arbitrary selection process. "There's a lot of things that kind of just irk you along the way," he admitted, highlighting the personal impact of recognition and legacy in any industry. This situation underscores the unfortunate reality of organizational politics and transparency in recognition processes. As I told Kip, I'll continue to advocate for his rightful inclusion because his contributions to the "classic lineup" are undeniable.

The Iconic Album Covers: A Marketing Masterstroke (and Misstep?)

The conversation also delved into Riot's instantly recognizable album covers. These distinctive artworks, often featuring the band's seal mascot, were a significant part of Riot's visual identity. While Dr. McDermott noted they were what initially caught his attention and sparked curiosity for many fans, generating familiarity with the band, the internal reception was mixed. Kip revealed that drummer Sandy Slavin "hated them, hated them, hated them," while Kip himself "thought they were kind of cool because when you line them all up, they look like a comic strip."

This divergence in opinion highlights a classic marketing challenge: balancing artistic vision with market perception and internal consensus. What one person views as "silly nonsense" (as Kip described the "harp seal" criticism), another sees as unique and attention-grabbing. The comparison to Iron Maiden's Eddie underscores that bold, distinct visual branding, even if unconventional, can be highly effective. The subtle approach to the Born in America cover, however, was perceived by Kip as "low keyed" and perhaps "cheap," suggesting that while consistency is valuable, evolution in branding needs to be carefully considered to avoid diluting impact. Ultimately, these iconic covers undeniably played a crucial role in Riot's unique brand identity and global recognition.

Life Beyond the Stage: Reinvention and Lifelong Learning

Perhaps one of the most inspiring aspects of Kip's story is his successful career beyond Riot, a testament to reinvention and the power of transferable skills. His lifelong passion for cars, cultivated from a young age out of necessity in his small town, seamlessly transitioned into a thriving career in the automotive industry, first with Porsche and then with Mercedes-Benz.

Kip's approach to his automotive career mirrors his dedication to music. Starting as a "low-end tech," he "put everything I had into it," learning every aspect of the business, even taking on undesirable tasks. This commitment to continuous learning and mastering the fundamentals paid off. His rise to shop foreman, where his role was to help his team "make more money," exemplifies servant leadership and fostering a collaborative, profitable environment. This notion is a powerful lesson in how investing in your team's growth directly contributes to overall success.

Even after retiring from the automotive industry, Kip remains a vibrant example of a lifelong learner and passionate individual, now dedicating his time to rehabbing remote control airplanes – a hobby he eloquently compares to playing a song, with its "take off, climb to altitudes, do a solo, make a couple of high-speed passes, and then try to nail the landing." Continually pursuing new challenges and mastery underscores the importance of maintaining curiosity and engagement throughout one's life.

From the stage to the garage and beyond, Kip Leming's journey offers a compelling narrative for the Rockstar MBA. His experiences are a powerful reminder that the principles of hard work, adaptability, collaboration, and a relentless pursuit of excellence transcend industries, proving invaluable whether you're manipulating basslines or managing a high-performing team.

Individual Takeaways from Kip Leming's Interview:

• Life: Embrace Lifelong Learning and Adaptability. Kip's journey, from an unexpected start in music to a successful career in the automotive industry and a continued passion for hobbies like remote-controlled airplanes, demonstrates the profound impact of embracing new challenges, continuously acquiring knowledge, and adapting to life's changing circumstances. His story is a powerful reminder that growth and fulfillment come from a willingness to learn and evolve throughout one's entire life.

• Business: Identify and Excel in Your Niche to Drive Value. Kip's early realization that "being a bass player, I kind of had a gig whenever I wanted it" due to fewer people playing bass showcases the strategic advantage of identifying and mastering an underserved niche. His dedication to becoming the "missing link" that could manipulate a song and later leading a Mercedes-Benz shop by excelling at tasks others avoided illustrates that deeply understanding and excelling in your specific role or market can create indispensable value and sustained demand.

• Marketing: Authenticity and Adaptability are Keys to Enduring Appeal. Riot's music, particularly Fire Down Under, resonated deeply and endured due to its authentic sound and the band's willingness to evolve their style (e.g., bringing in Rhett Forrester). Conversely, the "Born in America" video disconnects from the song's essence and highlights the perils of inconsistent brand messaging. Kip's preference for live recordings and vinyl underscores that maintaining quality and authenticity while adapting to market shifts is crucial for a lasting connection with your audience.

• Entrepreneurship: Take Calculated Risks and Learn by Doing. Kip's bold decision to claim he could play bass despite never having done so, and then rapidly acquiring an instrument and learning on the job to play his first gig in two weeks, embodies the entrepreneurial spirit. His advice to "get a bass, join a band, because you will learn fast" emphasizes the power of experiential learning, rapid execution, and an ambitious mindset over prolonged theoretical preparation, even when facing uncertainty.

• Leadership: Empower Your Team and Foster Collaborative Growth. Kip's unique role as the bassist, capable of influencing the band's dynamics and deciding "who made the mistake" through his alignment with the drummer or guitarist, speaks to a subtle yet powerful form of leadership. Later, as a shop foreman, his focus on helping his technicians "make more money" and fostering a collaborative environment where "everybody got a piece of it" illustrates that effective leadership empowers individuals and drives collective success.

Beyond the Music: A Heartfelt Thank You to Kip Leming

This article wouldn't be what it is without the incredible insights and genuine spirit of Kip Leming. Thank you, Kip, for taking the time to peel back the layers of Riot's history and for openly sharing your remarkable journey, from the stage to a successful career and beyond. Your passion for life, learning, and overcoming obstacles is truly inspiring, and I'm immensely grateful for the opportunity to share your story with our readers. Click here to listen to the entire interview with Kip Leming. 

Best regards, Martin J. McDermott, DBA

What aspects of Kip's story resonate most with your own professional journey, or what unique hobbies have taught you valuable business lessons? Click here.